Sgt Grit Marine Forums

I didn't want to post this on the Holocaust thread out of respect.

How can Colorado do this?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5icJKljqhddP4pULG942ZtJraBj-QD90CET6O0 

 Well gee, haven't you read your history books?   We loaded the Indians onto trains and took them to the rez to gas them.  We had them in labor camps, and extermination camps.  Our forebears wore uniforms with crooked crosses on them.  They would raid a teepee late at night and remove all the Indians inside. The one's we didn't gas we worked to death in the labor camps, or shot down with machine guns.

And even though NONE of my ancestors took part in this I am still to blame because before I was born I didn't warn them not to do it.  I am so ashamed. 

Political correctness run amuck.

"The resolution says Europeans intentionally caused many American Indian deaths and that early American settlers often treated Indians with "cruelty and inhumanity." "

Strange, there is no mention of cruelty and inhumanity perpetrated against early settlers, not to mention other Indian Nations.  I think it ironic that a Comanche state representative introduced the legislation, since the Comanche were notorious warriors who raised hell not only with Texas settlers, but with other Indians and the Mexicans.  (I live on the western edge of the Comanche Trail). 

ttp://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheTwo.html 

 http://www.dickshovel.com/ComancheTwo.html

There is no comparison between the natural movement of people across the world and Genocide.  Had the "native americans", {who wiped out the people who were living here before they got here}, reacted different to settlers moving into their area, a lot of what took place would not have.  That's totally different than a people who plan before hand to totally wipe out a group of people for ideological reasons.  The Colorado politicians should leave that peace pipe alone before they go into session.   

Just more "Hate America First"!

Paco, an interesting aside to this very interesting thread (Dickshovel ??) is the historic marker on the side of the highway (can't remember the number) between Bandera and Kerrville.  It's at a pass through high hills, named "Bandera Pass," and according to the inscription, Bandera got its name from a treaty in the early 1700s between local Spanish military to the South and the Comanches to the North in that part of Texas, establishing the pass, marked with a flag ("bandera"), as the boundary between the two groups.

slugdog:

There is no comparison between the natural movement of people across the world and Genocide.    

Sluggy, the PC Police always miss the point. Nomadic tribes--and that includes our ancestors in Europe--have been displacing other tribes ever since we learned to walk on two feet. You run out of game in your territory, you move onto somebody else's territory and if they don't like it you fight them. The loser moves off and displaces somebody else. The same thing happened in this country. Indians displaced other Indians...alot of times wiping them out. Our ancestors came in and displaced them. We will be displaced someday. Many think it is already happening.

fseals:

Strange, there is no mention of cruelty and inhumanity perpetrated against early settlers, not to mention other Indian Nations.  I think it ironic that a Comanche state representative introduced the legislation, since the Comanche were notorious warriors who raised hell not only with Texas settlers, but with other Indians and the Mexicans.  (I live on the western edge of the Comanche Trail). 

Amen, Frank. There are plenty of documented accounts of Indian's mutilating and torturing not only whites--but people of other tribes. Of warfare and displacement between tribes. And of course we have the Aztecs...they were real sweethearts.

No, white Europeans caused all the freakin problems. I wonder--just wonder--if the Japanese, say, had developed navigation and shipbuilding before the Europeans, and began exploration, how they would have treated our Native Americans?

The crazy thing about this is that Indians prided themselves on being warriors. The fierce fighters among them--and there were many--I don't think they'd want to be labled as weak innocent victims...catagorizing Native Americans this way detracts from their heritage and pride as skilled fighting men. By rushing out to "protect" them through all this legislation, the PC crowd is actually degrading them. 

Al, your thought about the Japanese reminded me of a really interesting book, Guns, Germs And Steel , which posed the topic question, "Why didn't the Incan Atahualpa capture Charles IV of Spain?" 

Why did European and Asian cultures, which had no head start on being human beings, become so far advanced over other distant cultures?  It's a textbook, sort of, but interesting in limited doses.  Basically, the author posits that since the European and Asian landmasses were contiguous, and generally on the same latitudes, facilitating travel and resulting in commerce, idea-trading, and exchanges of cultural and other ideas, the respective civilizations advanced faster than isolated ones which had to depend more on independent invention of technology.

Also, since keeping livestock was widespread, for the same reasons, mutated germs jumped to our early ancestors, killling a bunch, but inoculating the survivors.  New World natives, among others,  didn't have that advantage.

Alex, I can't remember if it is Hwy 16 or 173 that goes over Bandera Pass, but I remember seeing the historical marker many moons ago (late 70's).  I was very impressed by Bandera Pass, until I drove across the mountain between Leakey and Vanderpool. 

My beautiful old Aunt Betty from Eagle Pass used to call that stretch "the Devil's Backbone."  I've driven that road in a fog, and don't think I ever went over 10 mph.

Dosrios:

Al, your thought about the Japanese reminded me of a really interesting book, Guns, Germs And Steel , which posed the topic question, "Why didn't the Incan Atahualpa capture Charles IV of Spain?" 

Why did European and Asian cultures, which had no head start on being human beings, become so far advanced over other distant cultures?  It's a textbook, sort of, but interesting in limited doses.  Basically, the author posits that since the European and Asian landmasses were contiguous, and generally on the same latitudes, facilitating travel and resulting in commerce, idea-trading, and exchanges of cultural and other ideas, the respective civilizations advanced faster than isolated ones which had to depend more on independent invention of technology.

Also, since keeping livestock was widespread, for the same reasons, mutated germs jumped to our early ancestors, killling a bunch, but inoculating the survivors.  New World natives, among others,  didn't have that advantage.

 

 

Suppose the Europeans, Japanese, or Space Aliens had NOT come to the North American continent?  I feel that it may have taken some time, but ultimately the Indians here could have developed more advanced technology and ultimately would now be the ones building the roads, and daming the rivers and generally raising hell with the environment. 

The reason we do these things now is because we don't like living in drafty, dark, bear infested caves.  I can't imagine the Indians liked living in teepees all that much either, and would have jumped at a chance to live in a split level rambler.