Sgt Grit Marine Forums

Where did the points on the Marine corps BDU cover come from?? I've asked several Marines including officers no one knows.

The Marine cover was a soft field cap, that was a down sized version of the locomotive engineer's cap. The Cover was intended as a "work" or "fatigue" uniform cover. The Army also used the same cover. The cover came into being during WWII. After the war the cover was slightly modified, so the was a flat panel toward the front for the Marine Emblem, instead of a peak. Later in Garrison, the troops began to starch the damn thing for that crisp sharp Marine look.

We never starched our covers in the 50s, however, as with the barracks cover (p!$$cutter), we would stow 'em under our belts so as not to crush 'em too much. Sgt. Wolf

quote:

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Originally posted by Sgt. Wolf
We never starched our covers in the 50s, however, as with the barracks cover (p!$$cutter), we would stow 'em under our belts so as not to crush 'em too much. Sgt. Wolf

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GASP... can you even think of what some Salty Gunny would do to you if he caught you doing that nowadays? Under the belt.. you would be skinned alive!!

Sgt. Wolf:

We never starched our covers in the 50s, however, as with the barracks cover (p!$$cutter), we would stow 'em under our belts so as not to crush 'em too much. Sgt. Wolf

We didn't starch our utility covers in the late 50s but we did bleach the hell out of our HBTs to get that "salty" look.

Just my opinion, I have never seen anyone question the "points" on the Gung Ho Cap until the last few years.

The old utility cap (called a Gung Ho Cap by my DIs) had no points, the first ones (WW II) actually were pretty floppy and had a longer bill (visor).

 

About 1953, the Corps came out w/the new non-HBT dungarees, and shortly after, the cap w/the sewn top appeared.

 

<>About that time, there had been a company called Ken Nolan, Inc....based in San Clemente if I recall correctly. (Ken Nolan was said to have been a former Marine S/Sgt--whether retired/discharged, I don't know).

<>He had a number of items sold in the PX at that time at Pendleton. Most common was the Stripe-Rite Kit--a plastic two-piece box w/stencils cut into it from Pfc to M/Sgt. The sleeve of the dungaree jacket could be fixed within the two pieces and your stripes stenciled w/either a brush-n-ink, or a "stencil-pencil,"  an affair that looked like a cross between a tube for toothpaste w/ponted end, and a magic marker.

<>Marines had previously just drawn the stripes onto their dungarees freehand--but most of the jobs really looked like hell. Some of the Bn Supply shops had also made up some stripe stencils same way they had for the names, MSNs stenciled on the backs of dungaree jackets, trousers, mount out gear, etc. The Ken Nolan stencil kit put an end, almost, to the crappy looking chevrons on dungarees.

 

<>Nolan also had a device, gizmo, called the cover-block. A metal contraption about 5-6" wide, held together and adjustable by a screw and wingnut. A washed cap could be placed over the cover-block and allowed to dry and/or starched. 

Next, there was for sale a plastic gizmachi to place behind your service ribbons and keep them straight.

 

In the meantime, the Corps had come out w/the metal collar chevrons, which was to terminate the stenciled chevrons altogether, eventually. We wore a metal chevron on the cap, too. That may have been a reason for the sewn-up top (and ) reinforcements sewn into the front to keep the cap front straight; thus the "ponts" as some of you refer to it.

Noteworthy, I think, is that old things die a slow death in the Corps. Everything new seems to have a long transition period--officially, and otherwise. The Battle Jacket, for instance--many of us still had them and wore them long after they were a thing of the past. I have seen photos of old salts still wearing campaign/service hats after their demise in 1943.

Same w/the old stenciled chevrons on dungarees. There was a time when we had to sew patches over the old stenciled chevrons, then wear the metal ones on our collars. And there were commands where you could not wear the old stenciled chevrons at all. And there were commands where we got away with wearing both.

 

Same w/wearing dungaree jackets outside trousers. This changed before I left boot camp in '52. But when I got to CJHP, most still wore them outside. Same w/blousing trousers over boots. I wore my old boondockers for a year or so at CJHP because we did not blouse trousers w/the old boondockers--only the new "Mickey Mouse" boots, as my DI called them. 

It was a great old Corps!

Semper Fidelis 

DickG

~~~~~ 

MARKINGS AND INSIGNIA - UTILITY UNIFORMS

Time period - early 40's - middle 50's

Branch of service - symbol "EGA" (Eagle, Globe and Anchor) and letters "USMC"

1936 type

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Placement - on the left breast pocket
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Application - uniforms were issued already marked, symbol "EGA" and letters "USMC" were stenciled in black color by producer

           

Enlisted Rank Insignia (1944 - 1946 type)

• I. Private First Class
• II. Corporal
• III. Sergeant
• IV. Staff Sergeant
• V. Platoon Sergeant
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VI. Gunnery Sergeant or First Sergeant (prior February 1943)
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VII. Technical Sergeant or Supply Sergeant
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VIII. Master Technical Sergeant or Master Gunnery Sergeant or Quartermaster Sergeant or Paymaster Sergeant
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IX. Sergeant Major or First Sergeant (after February 1943)
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X. First Sergeant (since 1944)
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XI. First Sergeant (variation)

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Placement - on both sleeves (the shoulder rank patches were not worn on utility uniforms)
• 
  
Application 1 - rank insignia was stenciled in black color

• Application 2 - rank insignia was hand-drawn in black color

Enlisted Rank Insignia (1946 - 1949 type)

• I. Private First Class
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II. Corporal
• III. Sergeant
• IV. Staff Sergeant
• V. Gunnery Sergeant
• VI. Master Sergeant
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VII. First Sergeant
• VIII. Sergeant Major

• Placement - on both sleeves (the shoulder rank patches were not worn on utility uniforms)
• Application 1 - rank insignia was stenciled in black color

 

• Application 2 - rank insignia was hand-drawn in black color

Officer's Rank insignia (valid till 1949)

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I. Chief Warrant Officer (gold color with medium blue stripe)
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II. 2nd Lieutenant (gold color)
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III. 1st Lieutenant (silver color)
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IV. Captain (silver color)
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V. Major (gold color)
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VI. Lieutenant Colonel (silver color)
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VII. Colonel (silver color)
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VIII. Brigadier General (silver color)
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IX. Major General (silver color)
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X. Lieutenant General (silver color)
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XI. General (silver color)

 

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Placement - on both collars of the coat
• Fixing - rank insignia was hold with pin fastener
• Material - the badges were produced in silver or gold metal

Name markings on uniform

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Placement - over the left breast pocket or on back of the shirt
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Application 1 - the name was stenciled in black color

• Application 2 - the name was hand-drawn in black color

Unit markings

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Unit identification - the shoulder unit patches were not worn on utility uniforms, since 1943 was used "U.N.I.S." - Unit Numerical Identification System
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Placement - on back of the shirt
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Application - geometrical symbol and numbers were stenciled in black color

COPYRIGHT 2001/2002 JAROSLAV JOCHMAN

Uniforms   Home

http://mujweb.atlas.cz/kultura/usmc/uniformE.htm

 

OK--that page I posted doesn't look so well what w/the white background...

Click on the link above, and it will take you to the history of the dungaree uniform--also check out the history of USMC rank insigne/chevrons.... 

 

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-C-Guadalcanal.html 

 

First Marine Utility Uniform Issued in World War II The United States Marine Corps entered World War II wearing essentially the same summer field uniform that it had worn during the "Banana Wars." The Marines defending America's Pacific outposts on Guam, Wake Island, and in the Philippines in the late months of 1941 wore a summer field uniform consisting of a khaki cotton shirt and trousers, leggings, and a M1917A1 steel helmet. Plans to change this uniform had been underway for at least one year prior to the opening of hostilities.

As had the Army, the Marine Corps had used a loose-fitting blue denim fatigue uniform for work details and some field exercises since the 1920s. This fatigue uniform was either a one-piece coverall or a two-piece bib overall and jacket, both with "USMC" metal buttons. In June 1940, it was replaced by a green cotton coverall. This uniform and the summer field uniform were replaced by what would become known as the utility uniform. Approved for general issues on the Marine Corps' 166th birthday, 10 November 1941, this new uniform was made of sage-green (although "olive drab" was called for in the specifications) herring-bone twill cotton, then a popular material for civilian work clothing. The two-piece uniform consisted of a coat (often referred to as a "jacket" by Marines) and trousers. In 1943, a cap made of the same material would be issued.

The loose-fitting coat was closed down the front by four two-piece rivetted bronze-finished steel buttons, each bearing the words "U.S. MARINE CORPS" in relief. The cuffs were closed by similar buttons. Two large patch pockets were sewn on the front skirts of the jacket and a single patch pocket was stitched to the left breast. This pocket had the Marine Corps eagle, globe, and anchor insignia and the letters "USMC" stencilled on it in black ink. The trousers, worn with and without the khaki canvas leggings, had two slashed front pockets and two rear patch pockets.

The new uniform was issued to the flood of new recruits crowding the recruit depots in the early months of 1942 and was first worn in combat during the landings on Guadalcanal in August 1942. This uniform was subsequently worn by Marines of all arms from the Solomons Campaign to the end of the war. Originally, the buttons on the coat and the trousers were all copper-plated, but an emergency alternate specification was approved on 15 August 1942, eight days after the landing on Guadalcanal, which allowed for a variety of finishes on the buttons. Towards the end of the war, a new "modified" utility uniform which had been developed after Tarawa was also issued, in addition to a variety of camouflage uniforms. All of these utility uniforms, along with Army-designed M1 helmets and Marine Corps-designed cord and rubber-soled rough-side-out leather "boondocker" shoes, would be worn throughout the war in the Pacific, during the postwar years, and into the Korean War.--Kenneth L. Smith-Christmas

WR Uniforms........

Uniforms.........