Sgt Grit Marine Forums

Women Marines: (excerpt from Warrior Culture of the U.S. Marines, copyright 2001 Marion F. Sturkey) In secret, Lucy Brewer became the first woman to serve in the Marine Corps. Disguised as a gung-ho man, she served in the Marine Detachment aboard the USS Constitution during the War of 1812. Over 100 years later on 12 August 1918, the Secretary of the Navy granted authority to enroll women for clerical duty in the Marine Corps Reserve. The next day, Opha M. Johnson enlisted and became the first official Woman Marine. During the remainder of World War I, 305 women enlisted to "free a man to fight." Over 20 years later during World War II, roughly 1000 officers and 18,000 enlisted women served, led by Col. Ruth C. Streeter. During the last year of the war, all available male Marines were battling the Japanese in the Pacific. In their absence, Women Marines represented over half of the personnel at Marine Corps bases in the continental United States. A year after the end of the war, the Marine Corps retained a small nucleus of Women Marines in a postwar reserve. But, in 1948 Congress passed the Women's Armed Forces Integration Act, which authorized women in the regular component of the Corps. At the time, women could not constitute over two percent of the total force and could not hold permanent rank above lieutenant colonel. Katherine A. Towle was appointed Director of Women Marines with the temporary rank of colonel. The following year the Corps set up a recruit training battalion for women recruits at Parris Island, and a women's officer training class at Quantico. During the Vietnam war in March 1967, MSgt. Barbara Dulinsky requested reassignment from the United States to Vietnam. She was transferred to the main military headquarters (MACV) in Saigon, the first Woman Marine to be sent to a country torn by war. But, seven years later the Commandant authorized Women Marines to serve with specialized rear echelon elements of the Fleet Marine Force. Still, these women were prohibited from deployment with combat units, or units which could conceivably be engaged in combat. Women were specifically banned from all infantry, artillery, and armor units, and they could not serve as members of aircrews. In May 1978, BGen. Margaret Brewer became the first general grade Woman Marine, serving as Director of Information. Twenty-two years later roughly 1000 Women Marines deployed to Southwest Asia in 1990-1991, prior to and during the Gulf War. Later, because of legal mandates, the Corps was forced to accept women into Naval Aviation pilot training. In July 1993, 2ndLt. Sarah Deal became the first such Woman Marine to begin training. She graduated and received her Golden Wings on 21 April 1995. The next year MGen. Carol A. Mutter became the first two-star Woman Marine. Two years later she was promoted again, the first Woman Marine to wear three stars. By the turn of the century in the year 2000, over 700 Woman Marines comprised about four percent of the officer corps. And, slightly over 8000 Woman Marines made up roughly five percent of the active enlisted force. The elite Marine Corps remains the only U.S. armed service with the wisdom and courage to maintain separate boot camp training units for men and women recruits. Despite the childish whining of liberal theorists, despite the rabid ranting of ignorant politically correct zealots, the Marine Corps has not faltered. Basic training for men and women will remain separate -- but equal. All who qualify will earn the title, United States Marine.

Carrie, thank you.

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Originally posted by ACM
The elite Marine Corps remains the only U.S. armed service with the wisdom and courage to maintain separate boot camp training units for men and women recruits. Despite the childish whining of liberal theorists, despite the rabid ranting of ignorant politically correct zealots, the Marine Corps has not faltered. Basic training for men and women will remain separate -- but equal. All who qualify will earn the title, United States Marine.

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Thanks for the info. It's always good to be reminded where we came from. I'm going to disagree with this part though.... I don't think it's wise that men and women are seperated. Marines have to serve together in all aspects of their jobs, why keep them seperate initially. The fact that I trained with the men in OCS and TBS allowed me the opportunity to prove myself and set my reputation from the get go. It's helped me establish credibility in new commands since my peers are able to vouch for me from the get go. Not trying to start a fire storm. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally posted by dcRacer

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Originally posted by ACM
The elite Marine Corps remains the only U.S. armed service with the wisdom and courage to maintain separate boot camp training units for men and women recruits. Despite the childish whining of liberal theorists, despite the rabid ranting of ignorant politically correct zealots, the Marine Corps has not faltered. Basic training for men and women will remain separate -- but equal. All who qualify will earn the title, United States Marine.

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Thanks for the info. It's always good to be reminded where we came from. I'm going to disagree with this part though.... I don't think it's wise that men and women are seperated. Marines have to serve together in all aspects of their jobs, why keep them seperate initially. The fact that I trained with the men in OCS and TBS allowed me the opportunity to prove myself and set my reputation from the get go. It's helped me establish credibility in new commands since my peers are able to vouch for me from the get go. Not trying to start a fire storm. Just my 2 cents.

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Excerpt from Warrior Culture of the U.S. Marines, copyright 2001 Marion F. Sturkey Here is whom your beef is with ma'am.

I disagree...this probably ain't the right forum for a discussion. We both know that this is a hot topic, we'll leave it at that.

The Boot Training needs to be separate.......period!  Ma'am or no Ma'am, that part of Marine Corps Training, must not be molested.  Disipline has to be instilled, first and formost.

Wm. R Miller Jr.:

The Boot Training needs to be separate.......period!  Ma'am or no Ma'am, that part of Marine Corps Training, must not be molested.  Disipline has to be instilled, first and formost.

 

I didn't want to get into this again, but I disagree.  Our trainig at OCS/TBS was all integrated and I think that was one of the best parts about it.  Especially now where I'm the first female pilot in 269, my peers already have confidence in my ability as a Marine due to the initial training with me.  Marines are going to have to work in a mixed-sex environment and will need to be maintian proper discipline there.  There are females in the Marine Corps, that has nothing to do with any part of the Corps being "molested."  A Marine should be a Marine.  Male or Female.  Period.  

Ma'am at OCS you had WM DIs, you were in a separate Bks Wing, as far as being - COED...........you didn't really integrate with the males, but stayed together with the other females.

Marines are Marines, but there is still two sexes.  Don't be fooled by lip service, you will still have to prove yourself in 269.  And then again in the sand box.

You are still a novice and a rookie.........don't be so overly confident, that you fool even yourself.

Wm. R Miller Jr.:

Ma'am at OCS you had WM DIs, you were in a separate Bks Wing, as far as being - COED...........you didn't really integrate with the males, but stayed together with the other females.

Marines are Marines, but there is still two sexes.  Don't be fooled by lip service, you will still have to prove yourself in 269.  And then again in the sand box.

You are still a novice and a rookie.........don't be so overly confident, that you fool even yourself.

Well said...and I will leave it at that.

Wm. R Miller Jr.:

Ma'am at OCS you had WM DIs, you were in a separate Bks Wing, as far as being - COED...........you didn't really integrate with the males, but stayed together with the other females.

Marines are Marines, but there is still two sexes.  Don't be fooled by lip service, you will still have to prove yourself in 269.  And then again in the sand box.

You are still a novice and a rookie.........don't be so overly confident, that you fool even yourself.

 

I'm not claiming to know it all, just saying what I've seen.  Gunny, you have more experience than many of us, but that doesn't mean that our expereince in today's changing Corps is invalid. 

As for OCS, you are incorrect.  We were NOT in seperate brks wings from the males.  Differend squad bay, but they were all connected -- even to the males.  Everything we did was integrated -- classes, PT, SULE exericese, LRC courses.  Male and female candidates were mixed in groups to complete these activities.  The only time we were seperated from the males was for sleeping.  TBS was even more integrated than OCS -- we were in rooms with other females but next door to and somethings ajoining male rooms. 

 I may be a novice, but I'm currently in and have up to date information.  Have I ever claimed to know it all?  No.  Have a I claimed to have proved myself in combat? No.  What my initial point was that with my PEERS (ie the other Lts in the squadron) having been with them from OCS on, and being able to have shown what I can do from the get go has led to THEIR acceptance of me and their desire to stand behind me in my transistion to the fleet.  I'm not naive in assuming that I'm not looked at differently than other pilots because I'm the first female to come into the squadron.  And I've never claimed to have stromed in and taken the good ol boys club by storm.  Yet the transition has been easier since us Lts have been together and therefore I'm seen as just another Lt, not a female, by them.  It works the opposite way, as well, in that I've never been intimadated to step up when I have to. 

I can only speak from my experiences, but in what may be an ignorant (not meant as an insult to myself or anyone else), there is a vast difference in the maturity and intelligence of the make up of the Marines (recruits/candidates) we are discussing.   Parris Island recruits are for the most part18-19 year old men and women that probably away from home for the first time, whereas OCS candidates are a couple of years older and have probably been out in the real world (albeit college) for a couple of years and understand. 

 

4th Battalion is a totally different world now than it was 30 years ago when I went through.  MCT is integrated, but who knows if the dye hasnt already been cast by then -  

dcRacer:

Wm. R Miller Jr.:

Ma'am at OCS you had WM DIs, you were in a separate Bks Wing, as far as being - COED...........you didn't really integrate with the males, but stayed together with the other females.

Marines are Marines, but there is still two sexes.  Don't be fooled by lip service, you will still have to prove yourself in 269.  And then again in the sand box.

You are still a novice and a rookie.........don't be so overly confident, that you fool even yourself.

 

I'm not claiming to know it all, just saying what I've seen.  Gunny, you have more experience than many of us, but that doesn't mean that our expereince in today's changing Corps is invalid. 

As for OCS, you are incorrect.  We were NOT in seperate brks wings from the males.  Differend squad bay, but they were all connected -- even to the males.  Everything we did was integrated -- classes, PT, SULE exericese, LRC courses.  Male and female candidates were mixed in groups to complete these activities.  The only time we were seperated from the males was for sleeping.  TBS was even more integrated than OCS -- we were in rooms with other females but next door to and somethings ajoining male rooms. 

 I may be a novice, but I'm currently in and have up to date information.  Have I ever claimed to know it all?  No.  Have a I claimed to have proved myself in combat? No.  What my initial point was that with my PEERS (ie the other Lts in the squadron) having been with them from OCS on, and being able to have shown what I can do from the get go has led to THEIR acceptance of me and their desire to stand behind me in my transistion to the fleet.  I'm not naive in assuming that I'm not looked at differently than other pilots because I'm the first female to come into the squadron.  And I've never claimed to have stromed in and taken the good ol boys club by storm.  Yet the transition has been easier since us Lts have been together and therefore I'm seen as just another Lt, not a female, by them.  It works the opposite way, as well, in that I've never been intimadated to step up when I have to. 

Oh yes Ma'am, in that respect, you can consider that "COED", but you marched as platoon of WMs, You ate as a Platoon of WMs, You sat in class as a Platoon of WMs, you PT'd as a Platoon of WMs, you were not integrated in the Male Platoons. The "Bks wing" as I called it, is separate for you to sleep in, and yes you are still connected to the rest of the Platoons.  You were not integrated like the Army and Air Farce in Trng for both Enlisted and Officer basic.  They inter-mix, y'all don't.  I can't speak for TBS, I was back in the Fleet, once they realized, I had an Incomplete Degree.

Don't fool yourself, you are not looked upon, as just another Lieutenant.  You are a female.  Trust me - you would see, if you could be that "fly on the wall" when you are not among them. (It don't matter how close friends you are..........)

I didn't say any of this to intimidate or otherwise, but you need to stay aware.  You will be picking up "Combat Crews" to fly together for in country mission work, see who you are paired up with. 

I've already heard the smack about the WM pilot and crewchiefs in 169.  They just returned from Iraq.  Don't be fooled and over confident.  Now, Ma'am, you do not have to defend yourself to me.  I believe you wil do your duty, and your loyalty and bravery is not in question.  Just do your best, which I know you can!